WE'VE MOVED!

WE'VE MOVED!
Find All New Content at TheMatinee.ca

Thursday, December 9, 2010

Effect & Cause (In Conversation with Douglas Trumbull)

Oscar nominated visual effects wizard Douglas Trumbull has worked his magic on such iconic films as STAR TREK, BLADE RUNNER, 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND. He was gracious enough to take a few moments to talk with me about 2001, larger than life cinema, and a particularly exciting upcoming project...

Douglas Trumbull doesn't consider himself a film historian. In fact he readily admits that there are a whole bunch of classic films that he has never seen. This may seem odd, considering the fact that he has worked on films that themselves are classics. However, the reason for it makes complete sense:

"I don't like having thoughts in my head that are derived from other movies."

While he tips his cap to men he's worked with - specifically Lucas and Spielberg - who are able to transpose material from John Ford movies into the science fiction genre, he prefers to start from scratch. "I like to have ideas myself," he tells me, "whether someone has had them before or not."

Trumbull is in Toronto to kick off a special run of Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY at the TIFF Bell Lightbox. For the next four weeks, the cerebral science fiction classic can be seen in a medium few get to experience anymore: 70mm. When I mentioned to Trumbull that 2001 is sometimes an answer to my "unseen classic or essential question", he points out that it needs to be an immersive experience.

He notes that the film was designed and created for Cinerama, back in the days where there were deeply curved screens that were 90 feet wide. This created an experience that, in certain aspects, was even more immersive than IMAX. When reduced to tv, the immersive experience is lost. So one could look at 2001 without knowing that they’re supposed to be in the movie, not looking at the movie.

"The cinematic language of 2001 is largely dependant on the giant screen and the engulfment of it. If you really want to understand the potential of the film, you need to see it that way". So in other words, where 2001 is concerned, watch it big and watch it loud.

Trumbull understands that not everybody has a 70mm cinema in their neighbourhood. He also understands the plight of the modern moviegoer's time and money. For these he says there's options. "I recently watched 2001 using a very high end digital projector and a blu-ray disc – which is of extraordinary quality. I had a screen at home that was about 20 feet wide, and I could sit 10 feet back. It was like watching a 70mm print!" So while a drive to The Lightbox might not be feasible in one's schedule, they can still get a healthy taste of the experience. "The quality can be absolutely stunning. Sometimes the quality can be even better than a theatre because the image is much brighter, and the colour saturation & contrast are much better. You can have a rather excellent blu-ray home experience these days."

The main advantage to seeing particular films in a cinema is preserving a sense of scope. Trumbull cites another film coming up in the 70mm Series as an example: David Lean's LAWRENCE OF ARABIA.

"Lean filmed shots that are so huge, you almost require a 70mm screen to notice that there are a whole trail of camels down there on the edge of a sand dune. On TV that would be completely invisible and you would wonder ‘why am I looking at this shot?’ In 70mm it makes perfectly good sense and adds to the epic poportion of the movie." He muses that the medium today just doesn’t handle that kind of immensity, though he hopes it will in the near future.

With Trumbull being an effects wizard, though not actively offering up his talents anymore, I wondered his take on the state of effects in Hollywood. It feels like seldom a day goes by where I don't hear someone grumble about a movie's special effects seeming "So CGI". Could this be a sign that effects designers are pulling up short, or perhaps that we as an audience are becoming more cynical?

Trumbull notes that often the issue is a financial one. Filmmakers can make photo-realistic CGI environments, buildings, and even creatures. If they want to make it super-realistic, incredibly lit and incredibly detailed, the computer rendering time gets to be extraordinarily high and expensive. Most filmmakers have to back off from that and admit that they can’t have a render farm churning for two days to get one frame of film. Thus, they have to reduce the quality of the CGI in order to get it within a realizable budget. This leaves the audience with a product that has a layer of artificiality to it.

So perhaps, what leave audiences dissatisfied isn't short-selling the CGI, but instead placing the entire bet on one style of effect. "One of the most successful series of films is Peter Jackson’s LORD OF THE RINGS Trilogy. Those films were a blend of GCI, synthetic characters, real characters, some real locations, and tons of miniatures." He then reminds me that audiences can fall for a film that is completely CGI, noting Pixar's run of success with computer animated stories.

"The sweet spot is somewhere between the two. I think that when filmmakers decide that they’re so in love with the graphics they’re not gonna go any other way, that's when it looks somewhat synthetic". It's then, Trumbull believes, that audiences become discontent with the quality of the effects.

Reflecting on cinema's past is wonderful, but I feel I'd have wasted an opportunity if I didn't ask Trumbull about something in the near future. After almost 30 years away from Hollywood, Trumbull has recently returned to the game to help a good friend of his with a much-anticipated project.

The friend is Terrence Malick, and the project is TREE OF LIFE.

"It was a lot of fun working with him. Terry said he had certain issues that he wanted help on, so went and helped him on a number of shoots. I'll be very interested to see what the completed film is going to be like and how it will be received." Trumbull goes on to tease, offering cinematic sugerplums to dance in my head. He alludes to a painterly, impressionistic film: much more like an art film of the 60’s. What he's seen suggests that TREE OF LIFE will have an editorial and a photographic style and mood that is totally different than the structured tones of films today. "Gonna be interesting to see if the audience can get it." he muses. His voice at this moment has a tone that suggests something involving cats and canaries.

Mallick has instructed Trumbull not to discuss details of the film before its release. However, I am able to get a little bit more when I ask about the film's place within Mallick's canon. "It's very much in the mood of THE THIN RED LINE and A NEW WORLD, but I would say even farther out...more amazing...more unusual. From what I’ve seen so far , I can tell you that if you felt that THE NEW WORLD was a departure from THE THIN RED LINE, this new film will be a like departure from THE NEW WORLD."

I'd suggest that until TREE OF LIFE hits theatres, that we will just have to make do with 2001. That said, I believe suggesting anybody is only "making do" with a 70mm presentation of 2001 qualifies as cinematic blasphemy.

Douglas Trumbull will be at TIFF Bell Lightbox tonight to introduce BLADE RUNNER at 8pm. The 70mm presentation of 2001: A SPACE ODESSY will be showing at The Lightbox daily until January 5th.

22 comments:

Univarn said...

Great discussion Mad! Look at you making the rounds with all these big Hollywood types. Or is this all part of your plan to gear up for the inevitable screenplay you're going to write? :P

DangerGirl said...

YAY you!!! Hob-nobbing with the best of them :)

Great interview! Will definitly have to make plans to see 2001, I've never seen it before and it sounds like the 70mm would be the right experience for first time watching.

The Film Connoisseur said...

Cool interview, I've admired Trumbull's effects work, specially what he did in 2001.

Trumbull directed a film called SILENT RUNNING about this guy who hijacks a giant spaceship, because he doesnt want the government to destroy the forests that the ships have in them.

It was a pro-nature film he did during the 70's. I dont consider it a perfect film, but I did like the spaceships and miniatures he used in it to sell us the effect of these giant space ships.

Cant wait to see TREE OF LIFE! Do you see any resemblence thematically to Darren Aronofsky's THE FOUNTAIN since they are both about the 'fountain of youth'?

Castor said...

Great interview Mad, especially given the fact that I'm such a huge fan of Terrence Malick's work. I read an early draft of The Tree of Life and although I'm sure the movie will be quite different, I can already tell it's going to be something special.

The Mad Hatter said...

@ Univarn... TIFF was amazingly gracious in setting this up, so it's more an amazing amount of luck than me making the rounds.

And who told you I was showing all of these cats my screenplay?

@ Danger... I'm looking to go see it myself, so let me know when you're up for it and I'll come along with.

@ TFC... I haven't seen SILENT RUNNING, but after this conversation i do want to chase it down. I am reminded of THE FOUNTAIN...especially since I'm getting the impression that both films are abstract.

Guess we'll have to wait and see!

@ Castor... Thank you sir - your stamp of approval means a lot to me. I'm right with you on the anticipation for TREE...I'm already antsy just waiting for the trailer to go online!

The Film Connoisseur said...

In case your interested, check out my review for Trumbull's Silent Running over here:

http://filmconnoisseur.blogspot.com/2010/01/silent-running-1971.html

Kaiderman said...

Great post, Hatter. I get that certain films are better on a big screen (2001 & Lawrence are great examples) but they are few and far between. ZI'm fine with my position on Film going and think technology (for home use) will find a way to catch up to that theater experience.

Jess said...

Very cool! Definitely adds another element to enjoying 2001! Have fun.

Mike Lippert said...

You know it's funny because special effects quality is limited by budget and time these days. not many filmmakers these days have the luxery like Speilberg and Julia Phillips did to keep pushing the cost of Close Encounters up and up way past the original under 10 million budget. But then again, not many turn out as brilliant in the end either.

You just can't watch 2001 on TV. At the very least you have to see it in widescreen. It doesn't make sense panned and scanned. Kubrick used every inch of every frame to tell his story and to lose any percent of that is to lose the movie with it. I think I'll definatly try to catch this babby in 70mm.

Good interview too. Keep em coming.

The Mad Hatter said...

@ TFC... I'll definitely check that out. thanks for sharing!

@ Kai... I specifically had you in mind when I asked him about what is possible in a home theatre experience. And by the sounds of it, your set-up could be even better than going out on many occasions!

@ Jess... It's been far too long since I've seen 2001, so this was a great primer to get me to revisit it.

@ Mike... Precisely. As Trumbull points out, budgetary restrictions handcuff a lot of directors, so we should consider artists like Spielberg, Jackson, and Cameron who can push studios for more cash the exceptions...not the rule.

Hopefully you do get down to The Lightbox before Januray 5th to catch this (you're local - no excuses!), so if/when you do, i'll look forward to reading your post.

simoncolumb said...

Yeah! I doth my cap to you sir - what a great interview. I think the discussion on 2001 is important - it is a tough watch but, like he said, the immerisve experience is wholly neccessary. Maybe next is to compile a list of 'immersive' films - films whcih require the cinema experience to really give it the quality it deserves - so far, 2001, Lawrence of Arabia ... etc etc.

both of which I have only seen on dvd. :(

The Mad Hatter said...

@ Simon... Pity you can't make a visit, since as trumbull mentioned, both will be playing here in 70 mil. I think I must follow this up with a post-screening piece, since I didn't entirely 'get' 2001 when I first saw it. Perhaps that immersive experience will be the extra kick I need.

Thank you for the compliment good sir.

cinema-fanatic.com said...

what a wonderful read! oh I cannot WAIT for The Tree of Life!

doc said...

This is fantastic.

The Mad Hatter said...

@ Doc... That means a lot to me. Thank-you. I worked very hard on it.

Kurt Halfyard said...

No idea that he was involved with TREE OF LIFE, but that is pretty darn awesome. The 2001: A Space Odyssey is more obvious (hopefully!) I have big expectations for the upcoming Malick feature.

The Mad Hatter said...

@ Cinema... Glad you dug it. I was pretty excited already, but after watching that trailer (and obviously being able to pick out Trumbull's influence) I'm even more psyched.

@ Kurt... Didn't know either until I did some research for this interview. Between talking about it here, seeing the TREE trailer this yesterday, and catching DAYS OF HEAVEN for the first time this week, I couldn't be more excited.

amy said...

Amazing, Hatter~

I'll post something on YAM about it, and link here.

My favorite part was this:
"He notes that the film was designed and created for Cinerama, back in the days where there were deeply curved screens that were 90 feet wide. This created an experience that, in certain aspects, was even more immersive than IMAX. When reduced to tv, the immersive experience is lost. So one could look at 2001 without knowing that they’re supposed to be in the movie, not looking at the movie."


Which explains why I felt underwhelmed when catching 2001.

Now must get a blu-ray player xD LOL

Joel Burman said...

They showed 2001 on 70mm in stockholm a couple of years ago. Unfortunately I could not attend because of work. But I made sure to see The Wild Bunch in the same scope! Great experience!

The Mad Hatter said...

@ Amy... Thanks for the plug! In about ten days or so, I'll be going to The Lightbox myself to take in this grandiose presentation. It's going to be my first time watching it proper, and the last time was ten years ago on a crappy 26" TV. I'm looking forward to 'seeing the light' as it were.

@ Joel... That sounds awesome! Along with 2001, I'll also be going for the presentation of LAWRENCE that Trumbull mentions in this piece. Such opportunities are rare - I can't wait!

Dave G said...

Another well done interview here Mr. Hatter. I watched 2001 a couple weeks ago on BluRay and it seeing it on a big screen in HD is definitely more of an "experience" than I've ever had before. I'm going to see the 70mm print, but I'll wait until near the end of the run.

I just watched the making of Blade Runner doc, Dangerous Days, and it's clear that, despite being a visual effects wizard, Trumbull realizes that the effects have to serve a story, and shouldn't be the story in themselves.

The Mad Hatter said...

@ Dave... Thanks for reading boss.

I have that doc in my deee-lux copy of BLADE RUNNER. Perhaps now that I've spoken to the man, i should go back and rewatch that doc (and BLADE RUNNER for that matter) with fresh eyes.

Lemme know what you think of the 70 mil experience!